Veer's Weekly office hours for Moderation
Here are the notes from the 22nd of July 2021
These are rough notes typed by ProbablePrime. If there are errors please edit away!
Please do remember to check our Roadmaps as a lot of questions here are partially covered there. Do continue to ask them but the roadmaps are there for you to read:
EarthMark Q: As moderator lead are there any concerns you see coming up that you would like to voice to the community?
- Not necessarily, things are going smoothly
- please make sure you can use your self moderation tools
- Ask a mentor if you need help.
- Check out the wiki too
GunGryphon Q: Does Neos have any specific direction that they want to take the game's public image and how can the users help with it?
- Answering in a moderation sort of way.
- We want Neos to feel like more than a game. Anything you want it to be. A Metaverse.
Alex from AlaskaQ: q: any concerns about having too many mentors?
- Nope, we want the view of mentors to be slightly less official feeling.
- They are volunteers to help you out.
Mysticporo Q: so can we talk about 2FA since its very nice and some people might not be aware its just been implemented
- yes, it makes your account more secure turn it on :)
Vilk Q: Where can I ask Architecture Questions?
- Prime: "My office hours is more forgiving of general questions so try there"
- Prime: "But if you want to ask questions to the CTO try the weekly stream or open a documentation issue request"
- Git: If you find a security issue please open a ticket at Moderation.neos.com
Enverex Q: Q: Something that has been reiterated again and again, and pushed as a Neos philosophy in general is use of host moderation tools above all else and only to include the moderation team as a last resort (or if something is happening on a wide/global scale). I'm wondering if this has changed as I've now seen several instances of the moderation team issuing global/public bans (some for not insubstantial amounts of time) for what appear to be very petty or minor incidents. Discussing these incidents with others (with evidence) to ensure it wasn't just myself that thought the incidents were very minor, resulted in agreement. Further more, the bans seemed to be issued without prior contact or warning, so they were outright first offence bans. Has the moderation team's stance changed on hosts controlling their sessions now? (as the hosts took no action in the examples I saw and seemed to use the moderation team as a form of retaliation).
- That's not entirely sure but do make sure that you know how the self moderation tools work.
- If there is a case of harassment, please ensure you open a ticket. We want to hear about it.
- IF you've been the subject of minor harassment that you could deal with please consider reporting it anyway. We still want to hear about it.
- We don't announce bans that regularly, we've only announced one in the past but this was months ago. We don't usually use Bans that much and if we do we use an adjusted intensity and duration based on the subject of the complaints/issues. We don't usually publicly showcase these.
- Git: We usually want to lead with Warnings first and then escalate to account restrictions.
- Git: The individuals who receive restrictions or warnings do receive notices and can appeal via the moderation portal.
- Veer: You cannot use the moderation team as a form of "retaliation" we only act with evidence and consideration.
Mysticporo Q: also another one for a world i want to build DMCA wise I'd like to use some music from a movie (tron legacy) how would i go about doing that? or would you recommend i not implement this music.
- your best bet is always to get into contact with the content creators. You need to get permission from them. In this case...contact disney.
vilk: Q: does neos currently have anything on the roadmap for upcoming augmented reality hardware? Check: https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/projects/12
All the following questions were answered with the same response, just below them.
MysticporoQ: not to push on the topic harder but how direct are the warnings are they light s(so could easily be mistaken as a please don't do that) or is it hey this is your warning please don't do this again or this will happen. Nammi Q: How do you give warnings? Do you use the Neos bot to send those out? Enverex Q: Q: How would warnings be issued? Via Discord, or from the Neos bot (as the bans are) or via one of the moderation team?
- It comes through via the Neos Bot.
- It explains what the user has done and why the warning has issued.
- We use the Neos bot to keep the warning anonymous.
- Git: Some historic warnings might have come from other sources but these days things come via the Neos bot
Mysticporo Q: i'd prefer someone to be 100% direct with me and let me know exactly that i will be banned if said behaviour is continued
- Warnings with the Neos bot are direct and to the point.
- They indicate that if the behaviour continues account restrictions will apply.
1amNick Q: Q: Will there be more granular permission systems like allowing inspector access but not world moderator permissions? For example letting people build/edit and not giving them the ability to kick people.
- Yes very likely.
- Check: https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/projects/16
Vilk Q: is neos looking for funding? (these questions are slightly off topic, happy to redirect them to a more appropriate channel if preferred)
- yes through our ico or patreon.
- we are not looking to dilute equity at this time.
- Prime: see: https://wiki.neos.com/How_to_Help
VilkQ: has ipfs ever been considered as a storage backend?
EarthMarkQ: Given the prevalence of community tools using security problematic techniques, I've started seeing hoarding of techniques. Many have the feeling that is a cold war situation where there's a lot of abuse vectors, so many there's no reason to report until someone actually does something malicious. This feels odd to me, but there does feel to be an understanding that as long as it's contained in the world it's fine. Is this a stance the moderation team agrees with?
- EarthMark provided some carefully worded examples of things that they were worried about. He was worried about the multitude of ways that users can be locked out of their avatar or have something weird done and that he thought the consensus was that this should not be reported. Where should the line be drawn for what is allowed and is what not allowed.
- General consensus: If you are worried please report it.
- Froox Response: Knowing about different types of exploits can still help, because it lets us design more general protection systems, that instead of patching up a single type of exploit, protects against a whole class of them. If you don't report it then we can't do anything about that one particular one at all and we can't make the decision whether to patch that particular exploit or design more general system that handles a whole set of similar exploits.
- A lot of the things we know about and are working on more expansive systems. To give example, consider the SimpleAvatarProtection. It was only designed for simple protection and there's lots of different ways around it and always will be, since it's not designed for it. However the planned license / object ID is being designed to be a robust solution from the ground up, which should protect against all possible uses.
JJtheHuskyQ: What about problems in Discord?
- In some cases we might moderate/restrict users differently in the Discord than on Neos.
JJtheHuskyQ: Do you have any ban evasion detection?
- Yes, but we don't go into details.
NammiQ: I'm aware of an individual who went straight to a week+ ban, they showed us scrolling through neos bot with video, and there's just a message about being welcomed to neos, free kfc, and then straight to a 14 day ban. For what I'd consider a minor infraction where people who have done worse received a 2 day ban (same deal, without any prior warning).This specific infraction was from a several hour long livestream they shared with us. So the question is, is there a discrepancy between the official word of Neos Moderation, and what specific or multiple Moderators are acting in accordance with?(edited)
- There was a time where we did not have access to send messages via the Neos Bot.
- Back then we would try to reach out usually via discord to speak to a user and issue a warning.
- This might have been what happened.
- Now, you will always see a message via the Neos Bot.
- Git: From this point forward, account restrictions are automatically combined with a Neos Bot message. It is automatic. Bugs do happen so instruct the user to reach out to us via a ban appeal or moderation ticket.
EnverexQ: at what point does an interaction become "harassment"?
- At the point where the interaction becomes repetitive and with a lack of consent. We'll then engage based on the context and will usually start with a warning.
- more egregious harassment cases might lead to restrictions but there is always the option of an appeal.
AshtonSparxQ: How can you tell people's discord? Especially if they have a different name from Neos to Discord (or vice versa)
- We usually don't use discord for warnings these days.
- If we want to ban them from discord due to Neos interactions. We may not be able to link up the accounts but we can in some cases use patreon link information or other identifying factors to help us understand the link.
Veer is moving this office hours to every other week now. Next week we won't have this meeting but week after that we will.