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In this Office Hours, Probable Prime talks about:


(Please note that the transcriptions will not be 100% accurate)

Alright everyone, it is now 5pm, so we're going to go ahead and get started.

Once again, sorry for the delay, I just lost track of time, realised it was 20 past, and

I'm like that's a bit unfair to start it this late, so we rolled it forwards to the next


Additionally, an announcement here which I'll also put after this one is that there will

be no office hours coming up in a random date that I don't know until I look at my calendar

because I'm out of the country for a little bit.

That is the wrong calendar, so let me just swap to the right calendar, I have too many

Google accounts.

Ok, it should be on this calendar, but it is not.

There will be no office hours on the 6th and the 13th of September, I'll put that in the

doobly-doos once we're done there, because 6th and the 13th, I'm out of the country.

I realised I'd accidentally scheduled that to miss 2, but the flight on my way out is

at 19.30 or 7.30 if you guys use non-24 hour clocks, and I could totally do the office

hours at 4pm on that date, but hey, let's get to the airport earlier.

No office hours on those two dates, the 6th and the 13th.

So the next office hours after this one will be on the 20th, which sounds scary because

it's basically like the end of September will be the next one, anyway.

Let's move on with the questions, and we'll get started with SLS's question, which is

actually I guess two questions.

First of all, do I check the office hours Google form?

I do, I do check it every week, sometimes I forget, but I'm getting to have it checking

every week.

I actually have a notepad document which is like shit to do at office hours that you keep

forgetting to do, and so yes, we're going to go ahead and check it.

As those questions were entered before office hours, we'll go for those first.

So the question we have here that is not answered is why was the force reticle above horizon

launch argument implemented by DMX asked that?

I don't know.

There are a lot of weird command line arguments that were created and added when we were using

much more varied hardware, so this is before some standardization of the hardware.

Now VR hardware isn't standardized at all, but before the realms of sort of like Vive,

SteamVR, OpenXR, the Index, et cetera, and Oculus, there were a bunch of additional headsets

that were there, they did different things, and there were a bunch of sort of features

that we didn't have in Neos, and that led to a bunch of stuff being added.

For example, there's like command line arguments which will turn another user into like a camera,

that was before we had the camera streaming UI, like you could turn a user into a camera

and it would just follow you around, it was a little weird.

That still does exist, I forget what the property is, but you can see that if you open up the

old Neos launcher and look around there, there's a bunch of stuff there that exists.

I have no idea why it's there, I've just remembered that there was a GitHub issue mentioned about

it, but I just can't remember what that's about, it's something to do with 360s, I don't


Take a look, figure it out, if you let me know, if you find out, let me know.

Moving forwards to the next question we have now, which is actually in the Office Hours

text chat, from Stifle, Stifle says, besides item texture thumbnail source, are there any

other hidden gems in the uncategorized section of components that are not being used that

it should?

So for those unaware, item texture thumbnail source will update and change the thumbnail

of an item that you saved to your inventory to be a specific thumbnail.

This is great because if you don't do this, it will just take a photo when you hold it,

which can go wrong with things like tools and stuff that have lasers or big items, sometimes

their thumbnail just looks terrible.

So I've seen a lot of people that are making use of those to sort of make sort of placards

or banners for their items to make it look easier to find them, so do check out item

texture thumbnail source, I believe there's a tutorial on my channel about that.

As for other components in uncategorized, there are far too many in there for me to

remember specifically, so I won't really be able to answer that one efficiently, there

are lots in there that shouldn't be used, there are lots in there that should be used.

I think destroy proxy is still in there, no actually destroy proxy got moved, destroy

proxy is a cool one, destroy proxy allows you to basically say like, hey, when this

item is destroyed, also destroy this other item.

I would like people to use that more on things like weapons, if you have ammo or guns or

grenades or any sort of ammo that's really existing rather than being a particle effect,

maybe consider destroy proxy such that when the gun gets destroyed, all the mess it made

in the world gets destroyed.

There's that very popular tranquilizer gun that doesn't do that, I hate the tranquilizer

gun because I don't know, all the new users seem to find it and then they shoot me with

it and I get really annoyed, but when that tranquilizer gun is deleted, the ammo stays

behind and just like in the floor, it's just like a big tranq dart in the floor and that's

annoying so destroy proxy can save you there.

Destroy proxy is also good for template-based creation, if you're like, yo, if I'm duplicating

this thing, then I want to link it back to the original thing, a bit like the ammo scenario

but also comes up in UI sometimes when I'm making UI, if that's it for that question.

No user found says, have you been working on anything interesting lately, stuff you're

excited to release or speak about?

Nothing that I'm excited to release or speak about unfortunately right now.

Moving forwards, Storm says, what are you working on that made you late today?

I would love to say that I had an amazing excuse, but I was just playing a video game

and had an eye on the clock and then got distracted by the video game being slightly more difficult.

So I blinked and I'm like, oh, it's way past, whoops, my bad.

I'm going to reenter an alarm into my calendar for various things that I need to be aware


I did used to have a calendar like schedule for the office hours, but it ran out.

I have too many Google accounts.

Moving forwards, Stifle says, can one write to Wiki pages about the world's publisher

to the creator jam?

Yeah, you can write whatever you want on the newest Wiki.

Keep it tidy.

I'll tidy out for you if it's really messy and you're struggling with the formatting,

et cetera.

But whatever you'd like to put on there, it's a community project.

You can put all sorts of stuff in there.

It would be great to see any of that sort of stuff.

As a reminder, anyone on the planet can edit the newest Wiki.

We have some troubles of logging into the newest Wiki, please do check the Wiki channel

for information about how to log into there.

And if you're interested in contributing to the Wiki, on the left hand side of the Wiki's

menu, there is the contributing to the Wiki menu.

Again, just to reiterate this, you don't need permission from me.

You don't need special privilege.

You don't need like a ticket.

You don't need a golden ticket.

You don't need to go to Willy Wonka's factory.

You can just go ahead and edit the Wiki.

Additionally, if you're making Wiki pages, please don't send me Google docs that have

Wiki pages in them.

Just write it straight in the Wiki.

If you don't want to put it in place, like in the actual place on the Wiki that you want,

make a temporary page.

Put the temporary page onto your user page, and then we can look at it there.

I've noticed this happens a lot with writing documentation across many roles and jobs I've


Lots of people write their documentation in Microsoft Word or Google Docs, and then when

it comes time to make that into actual documentation, it just won't work.

Because they're in their own word, they're thinking about word, they're thinking about

a document.

Whereas when they're in Wiki or Markdown or whatever the hell the documents are written

in, they're thinking about the way that the documentation is written in that language

and it allows them to sort of think more precisely about it.

A good example here being links in Wikis are a little bit weird until you get used to them,

but once you're used to them, you just put them everywhere.

But there has to be intention there.

Same with headings.

I've lost count of the amount of people that will use Word or Google Docs headings incorrectly

and drive me absolutely mad.

So write it on the Wiki if you're planning for it to be on the Wiki, and don't send me

Google Docs.

Send me temporary pages of Wiki or whatever you like.

Moving forwards, check says, is there anything you can tell us that you're working on for

the future?

Yeah, lots.

You can take a look at the roadmap on the GitHub public roadmap.

Everything there is still planned to be worked on.

Of course, C announcements for the stuff that's going on there that I don't want to dwell

on too much.

Nothing in particular for this week to be mentioned.

Basement says, is there a component that does a save proxy like the destroy proxy component?

I don't know.

I also don't know if the code base is open right now.

There might be.

I think I've seen something like that.

So do take a look.

I'll take a look as well.

Let's open the code base.

Might as well just open it now.

It can just sort of struggle with us whilst I'm sat here answering other questions.

Moving forwards, Jack says, can an RTX 3060 TI run Neos?


If it has 3 and X in it from Nvidia, you're probably better off than I am.

I run on a 2080 TI.

So excellent.

On the other side of that, if you're on a 1080, you'll still be able to run it.

But a 1080 is getting old these days now that the 3 series is coming out.

I heard news about the 4 series soon.

So cool.

B&B two generations behind.

But hey, I'm not going to drop too grand on a graphics hard anytime soon.

Getu says, is there a tool for making animations in Neos with game objects that don't involve

coding the whole Tween node of all inputs and outputs or is there a new way of making

animations in Neos?


So you have multiple options there.

So option number one is what you say with the Tween node.

You can also do mathematical animations, which are often all you need for really basic stuff.

For example, getting planets orbiting another planet.

Someone's like, can I make an animation file?

Just use sine and cos and it'll be done.

Takes a few seconds.

As for more complex animations, the two options that you have are firstly, animJ.

Lex and I are working on understanding animJ a lot better.

We got almost to the end, but then I really don't understand how the curve preset works,

but whatever.

So animJ is an option.

There is an animJ Wiki page.

It is kind of bare bones.

Do take a look at it.

That is more sort of writing the animations there.

I believe there are a couple of people working on sort of animJ exporters for various tools

that'll let you get some sort of complicated animations.

Additionally, you can make Blender or FBX based animations and import them and run them.

That is what a lot of people do.

You can swap between animations provided they have the same bone rigs and number of keyframes

or keyframe control points or whatever.

And that works out quite nicely.

For example, I have an object I think in my public folder under tutorials, which has just

a sort of blocky blob man that does three animations of a button on the front to show

that you can swap between them.

There's also worlds that make use of that.

A particular note just off the top of my head is eco, one of the MC entries where there

is an AI system of little foxes that walk around mining ore and trees.

Those will go from walking to digging, back to walking animations very, very easily.

I seem to remember I edited eco in one of the creator jams, there was a creator jam

which used eco as a base and I made a cow milking little fox that went up and milked


I didn't have time to bring in another animation, so the milking cow animation was actually

chopping a tree down, so it walked up to the cow and just was whacking it with an axe and

milk came out.

A river says, how hard is it to learn logic from someone coming from C sharp?

Strangely, you'll have a little bit of a better time because you know C sharp and because

you know generic programming, but the key thing I want to tell you is stop with comparisons.

It's one of the things that annoys me the most when people learn logics is they say

like, what language is it like?

It's not really like any language.

Is there any other language you know of that you can build in VR and it was made by yellow

dog man over in the Czech Republic?

No, there's no other language like that, right?

So you got to think that through and try not to make comparisons.

Of course comparisons are easy when you're trying to learn stuff, but sometimes they

get in the way.

There are people that just like cannot learn logics because they can't overcome that sort

of comparison style view.

You know, they'll start writing logics and they'll be like, well, if I was going to do

this in C sharp, I'll do it this way.

And it's like, well, that does help, but at a certain point you kind of have to just leave

it by the roadside and carry on into logics land.

So do keep that in mind when you're learning stuff.

Talking about that, there is this, I want to do a video on this at some point.

Let me see if I can get it.

Is this, like, abbreviation, there it is.

It's actually on my bookmark toolbar.

Here it is.

It says learn anything faster.

It's by this sort of life coach that does have paid products, but you can go by.

I'm not endorsing his products.

I'm just saying read the free article.

But the first part of his faster abbreviation, like an acronym, I guess, is forget.

And it's like the knowledge that we already have keeps us limited.

So in order to learn faster, we need to forget what we think we already know.

And that was like, yep, that makes perfect sense for logics.

Forget what you already know.

In some cases, it's situational that you need to forget it.

You'll have a lot of better time writing C sharp because you know basic logic, basic

programming terms, basic booting operators, stuff like that.

You know what the term variable means, but don't think about classes or files or functions

or collections because those don't exist in logics.

Bad Halo Ninja points out external slot saver.

I think external slot saver is the one I was referring to.

It's under utility.

It sounds like it does what it is.

I remember when it was added, I just haven't used it or had a need to yet.

Jack says can Neos be used for schools in the future like coding school, 3D art school?

It already is being used in schools in a lot of cases.

There's a lot of stuff that has been used in education.

I'm actually in a newspaper and on a sort of short 30 second piece of news is some educational

work I did in Neos.

So yes, it's being used in schools.

Moving forwards, electronic says the wiki states should look into some of the permissions

of cloud variables.

Any information to share on those?

Yes, I paused that work whilst we're in the sort of development hiatus because even if

I figured it out, I wouldn't be able to change anything.

The permissions around the contacts one are just a little confusing.

I had a bunch of debug lines in the code base that I was running on a build and then I lost

them for some reason.

So I need to figure them out.

The description there from the wiki that's crossed out might be correct.

It's just I was having a conversation with someone and we thought that they were not

correct and so I updated it to say like, hey, we're looking into them.

I know that's been a long time, but it is what it is right now.

Lots of stuff going on that just isn't fun.

Storm says it was beating the cow in the bucket.

That's correct.

I managed to swap out the axe for a bucket, but it was still the axe chopping animation.

So the little fox guy would be like whacking this cow with a bucket in the style of using

an axe and then it would walk away with milk in the bucket.

Jack says in the educational system.

I don't know what you mean by that.

If you mean like the educational system of a country, yes.

We did some education in Queensland, in Australia.

There's lots of stuff going on in Europe, especially near the classroom, but it's used

a lot.

We've even got some community members.

Tom Fox, I believe, is doing tutoring in mathematics for some of his students that he tutors using


That's why he was looking for a whiteboard style set up where you could actually erase

it a little bit easier.

Right now with our pens, you can erase whole brush strokes, but you can't erase like say

if you draw a line, you wouldn't be able to put a whiteboard eraser in the middle and

split that line in two.

You'd have to destroy the entire line.

That's what they were looking for.

Jack says would Neos be on PlayStation VR 2 or the new meta headset?

We don't know and can't make commitments to headsets that don't have any details or are

not released or are not on our hands.

The way it works with devices is if we get the device into the hands of a team member,

usually fruits, although there's a couple of devices that I will personally be trying

to implement simply because they will arrive at my apartment and if I don't implement them,

then they'll sit on a shelf gaining dust.

But if there is a developer kit, developer program or something like that, please forward

it to us or open a GitHub issue about it.

Please don't email the companies about us.

That's kind of rude.

Just imagine like, okay, let's just say for example, a new company and we'll call it cheese

comes out and they come out with the cheese VR one.

It's the best headset ever.

You want Neos to use it and 50,000 people email cheese like please help Neos integrate.

And meanwhile, business executives or people from cheese are already speaking to us.

It's just like noise, right?

So open up an issue and tell us to go speak to them, then we'll go speak to them and figure

it out.

If you have information to share, like where their developer kit is or whatever, put it

in a GitHub issue and then we'll be able to go from there rather than like spamming them

with like messages.

We had that with one headset, I can't remember which in particular.

No user found says, hey, do you remember that system you revealed you're working on the

previous product time, the bones system, I think any progress on the updates of that?

Yeah, that's going well.

Actually we're planning on sort of swapping out some of the meshes there, because we can't

give people access to the meshes, like pictures and stuff like that are okay, but access to

the meshes is bad because they're actual like patient files.

But if we swap them out to sort of like basically a skull and a leg bone that we've downloaded

from sketch fab, we can totally do that.

And I plan to do that so I can do a video overview of how that world works.

Because that would be super exciting to see how that works and talk about it later on,

depending on how the project goes, we might publish that world as a sort of example.

Right now it's still under heavy development, but that's actually not Neos team related.

That's like what I do in my actual existence.

No user found says Neos can run on Android smartphone.

It technically can, yes, speak to Zlinka for that, they are managing to do that.

It can also run on a Steam deck.

Interesting that we don't really expect these platforms to be supported, but they are.


If your phone blows up, don't blame me.

Yeah, I don't know anything about the Steam deck.

The Steam deck came out at a time where I couldn't spend as much money as I usually

was spending, so I just had to sort of pass on that.

I'll buy one when I have money.

Lux, this is a very long question.

Let me get started in reading this.

I've been messing with asset deduplication, trying to understand it better and was wondering

how the material set component works with respect to this.

Specifically whenever I add the material set component and place materials that are not

stored in the object itself, duplicating this object seemingly does not use the same assets.

Is there a way to get it to use the same asset system properly or am I going about the wrong


I don't know how that does that.

I'd have to look into that one, unfortunately.

The material set component might not be registering materials in the same way that a mesh renderer


There's two ways to refer to a material, right?

If you do create empty objects, add a material to it, Neos knows that that material isn't

being used anywhere, but if that material is then used somewhere, such as in a render

or whatever, it knows it's being used and then the asset system sort of kicks in and

tries to sort of preserve that asset to not be deleted so that the mesh that's using it

doesn't go to checkerboard.

That's also why there's things like asset loader and stuff like that, that'll keep the

asset loaded.

I don't know if material set's doing that properly.

I'll have to take a look.

I've got like two things to take a look at now, I don't know.

What was I opening the code for before?

I was opening it for Basement Nerd, we found that with external slot saver, and now I'm

looking at the code for material set.

Looking forwards, Jack says the PSVR 2 already has a dead kit.

It got leaked.

See the keyword there being leaked?

That means not allowed to use.

That's what the word leak means.

Sure, we're aware of it, sure we're aware that Facebook, Meta are going to announce

a headset soon, I've heard it's in October, but until there is like a button that says

you are an application, click here to officially be allowed to use this dev kit, we can't use


It depends on the individual sort of dev kit, dev relations style thing.

There have been a couple of headsets that we've had to sign paperwork for in the past,

so like, you know, it being leaked is another thing from it, like being available.

Moving down to more questions, Aaron says, I think this was asked before but I don't

remember the answer so I apologize, do you have plans for now for any marketing for the

game once you start, guys?

Start doing updates again.

We don't have any plans right now, of course, because of the, you know, we're not doing

updates right now, but I'm sure we will once we get started again.

Again, it will probably be sort of more targeted and dependent on the sort of like updates

that we do.

We are grateful for the rushes that we've had, you know, the news is coming in due to

the VR chat stuff, due to the metaverse boom, due to thrill seekers video, we're grateful

to all of those people, if any of you are in the office today, thank you for coming

and trying us.

But controlled growth is a little better than uncontrolled growth, so we want to be very

careful about when we do that, how we do it, and what we do.

I know people want us to be like, yo, Twitter, here's $5,000, put us on all of the timelines,

shove us here, I want us to, you know, here, TikTok, take $5,000, shove our TikToks down

people's throats.

It's just like life doesn't work like that, life doesn't work like that.

Jack the Duck is still talking about the leaked and deleted and pictures and scary details.

If there is not a website by the company that says you can use this, we cannot use it.

I guess you can kind of view it like a museum, right?

We are aware that the Mona Lisa exists.

I can go visit the Mona Lisa, I forget where it is, I think it's still in the Louvre, I

don't remember.

Anyway, bad paintings, I don't know where it is, but anyway.

I know that the Mona Lisa exists, I can look at it, I can look at photos of it, I can look

at information about it, but I can't touch it.

I can't lick it.

Like it's not gonna happen.

Same with that dev kit, right?

I know that these headsets exist, I know that they're cool, I know that they're gonna be

announced, I've seen leaked photos, I can't do anything with that information, I can't

touch it.

And yeah, that's probably gonna go in the quote channel, I can't lick the Mona Lisa.

No, I said it was a bad example because I don't know where it is, like if I'm talking

about a painting, I would rather I knew where it was.

I did see a post recently actually, there's one of the image writing AIs and I don't want

to talk about these for like forever because it's just a long conversation, but one of

the image AIs can sort of take a given image and expand it to be a larger image.

And so what it does is like it will draw around the edges of the painting what it thinks should

be there if it was like a zoomed out picture.

And someone fed it the Mona Lisa and it drew like her as a sort of like, I don't know,

TikTok influencer because like that's what it was trained on or whatever.

So it was like Mona Lisa in the middle and then as it like expanded outwards, it was

quite clearly like a sort of, you know, 2020 style lady sat there with like whatever was

added and it was kind of interesting to see.

Let me see if I can go ahead and get that for you.

Looks like there's some additional posts that do have good copies of it.

They've sort of expanded it very well, but I did see one that expanded it to be like

completely confusing.

This one here took into mind the like actual style, but another one when it expanded it

was like in a room at a table, it didn't make any sense.

Whereas that one is, you could see that of maybe being where she was painted.

Let's scroll down and take a look.

Jack says, can you leak anything we aren't supposed to use yet?


In the current build of Neos that you're on, there is a variable type called colorX.

Don't use it.

That's part of color management, isn't ready for you guys to use yet, will be once we get

color management, but you can see it and you can have a look at it.

You can also look at how god-awful it is in the inspector to look at, but there you go.

It's just there because like color management is such a big change that like part of it

got merged in a previous build.

So you can see it.

But yeah.

No User Found has an interesting question.

So No User Found says, what are your thoughts about how a multi-million billion dollar company

like Meta can't make a good VR social metaverse, but two people and a bunch of developers can

make a good VR metaverse?

It's a problem of focus.

So a bit like that picture of the Mona Lisa zooming out that we just did here, right?

Could DaVinci have painted that entire landscape?


But he didn't want to because he was doing a picture of Mona Lisa.

I don't know if it's the name of the painting or the name of the subject of the painting.

So whatever.

I'll just call her Mona from now on, maybe Lisa.

He was like, I want to do a painting of Lisa.

So he painted Lisa.

He didn't paint the trees around her.

And the same thing that goes for the metaverse.

I've worked at large companies and I know that focus sometimes becomes a problem, but

it becomes a problem because you're paying too many people.

Let's say you have a thousand people.

One of them has to focus on something that doesn't make sense to be focused on.

Like, okay, let's do another basic example.


You're building a house and someone's focusing on electric, someone's focusing on plumbing,

someone's focusing on the roof, someone's working on structure and integrity.

Someone's focusing on what color the cushions on the couch are going to be.

Guarantee it, right?

And they need to, because it's like a big company and they need to focus on that.

But then like times that buy a hundred, right?

And then you've got all these meetings, all this information, all these people, all these

budgeting, all these teams.

And it's just like, cool.

We've just spent six months talking about the color of a cushion, but the electrics

don't work.

When I turn on the living room light, the garbage disposal turns on like that.

That's what happens.

And like driving that and making that work at a large company is like a huge like leadership


And the leadership are in place.

Now that isn't to say that Metta's leadership is bad.

I don't actually know anything about it.

Like I'm laughing at the memes, you know, the, the, the Zuck picture in front of the

Eiffel Tower, but that's like, that's just me laughing at the picture.

I haven't done enough research or investigation into what might be going on there from a leadership

point of view to cause that lack of focus.

But focus is the problem there.

When we have the smaller team that we do have, it means that we have focus through another

realm, which is we don't have a thousand people building a house.

We don't have someone thinking about the couch.

In this case, the couch might be that our UI looks absolutely garbage.

Like it does, right?

We're going to work on it when we can.

But when we do that, we're going to focus on that for a bit.

And it means that maybe the electrics aren't being focused on like the electrics are still

going to work, but maybe you don't have the air conditioning unit is maybe not running

as effectively as it should.

So we have focus simply by a sort of function of existing.

I hope the answer worked.

Like there's so much nuance to that, that I could probably talk for hours.

So I'll leave it there.

Jumping around.

Dorky does say build the house before the couch is what we're going to be doing for

UI updates.

Your update like gets like conflated a lot.

Like a lot of people think it's just one item, like it's a big ball of string and the UI

update will just launch one day and everything will change.


We will work on two things in parallel, which is the UI systems, which are like a slider,

a checkbox, a text input field, a square that those things can go inside.

And then the other thing will be a part of the UI and we'll work on them together.

So it will be like, Oh, we're working on the settings UI now for the settings UI, we need

to update how sliders work, not sliders.

The component that allows you to move stuff in the world.

Sliders is in the volume slider, right?

Well, we need to update the volume slide.


So we'll update the volume slider.


Now the settings UI can use that new volume slider.

And it means the next time that we need a slider, we don't need to work on the volume



And then we just keep working on that.

We're like, okay, we're done with settings.

Let's move on to inventory.

Oh, we need some form of grid that can show thumbnails, we'll work on that as a part of

the system.

Now we can work on the inventory.

So a little bit of like washing one window, washing another window, eventually you'll

get like the whole picture.

It's not like we're just going to drop in one day with like a nuclear bomb and go like,

boom, the UI's done.

Moving forwards, rather than me wittering on about various sort of analogies that get

more and more obtuse, electronic says, how far along was, is color management?

Last time I recall hearing it was in close testing and getting ready to push to danger


It is close.

Of course, we're not doing updates right now.

So it's less close than it was.

Probably a better question for Geens, who isn't here.

But I know that every time we talk about it, I end up sort of misunderstanding color even


You have to remember that I am slightly colorblind, and so I've just kind of ignored color management.

Not from a perspective of I don't care, but from a perspective of like, I can't help as

best as I could.

I'll still help with testing, make sure the stuff makes sense, but we'll need other testers

at that time to be like, yeah, this looks right.

I can't tell if it's too many yellows and greens, it seems.

I'm just like, god, if your world is yellow or green, I'm probably confused.

Electronic says, could we get that as a clip?

Yeah, the recording of this Office Hours will be up on Sounder.

You can go ahead and download it and cut it up and be like, boom, boom, bash.

Yeah, that's another thing.

Storm says that games was trying to find a way to add it without breaking everything.

That's another point.

To give another, again, incredibly obtuse and crude analogy, color management is going

to be a little bit like bashing you over the head, removing your eyes, and putting in different

eyes, and then waking you up.

We want that to be as smooth as possible.

What I mean by that is like, stuff is going to look different.

It's going to look different.

And there's no way to make that not be different.

That's just color management in general.

It's going to make stuff look different.

It's about making that smooth.

It's like saying like, hey, let's install the color management build.

Let's go through the top 100 worlds and make sure they don't look dumb.

If they do look dumb, let's make sure that we figure out why they look dumb and see if

that's a problem or it's just a symptom of the color management switch.

So I seem to remember there were some screenshots available.

It might be in the devlog channel of some of the popular worlds back then when it was

being posted before and after.

Unfortunately, the camera wasn't aligned to the same location because I wanted to do is

put it on one of those swipey tools.

You know where you can swipe left and right to compare two pictures?

I wanted to put before and after color management on one of those swipey tools so you could

be like, woo, woo, woo, and swipe it backwards and forwards and see the difference.

I'm sure we'll get some of those, especially if I'm on the color management build.

I'll get some camera anchors together and make sure I can get some swipey photos.

If you don't know what I mean, I'm sorry, but swipey photos, yeah.

I think it's called onion skinning or something like that.

It's similar to like in sort of traditional animation where like old school animation,

computer animation, not computer animation, sorry, but like by hand animation where they

would like draw a background and then put overlay like plastic paper with the characters

drawn on them and then flip between them to make sure that they look good between two


Like that, swipey photos, yeah.

Moving forwards again because I'm mumbling.

Patty says, does Neos work with all FBT?

I know it works with five pucks, but what about Haratora X?

I don't know what Haratora X is, so I won't be able to comment on that one.

I know that some people have Tundra trackers and that they work.

A good example here, which is not for sure a guarantee, but a good example here that

will let you sort of figure it out is does the SteamVR application recognize them as


If the SteamVR application recognizes them as pucks, then it means that they are compatible

with SteamVR, which means we should be able to pick them up well.

That isn't, like I said, guaranteed, but it's the closest thing I've got right now.

And Doki actually said that before I even said it, so yeah.

If it doesn't show up as pucks, then you'll have a difficulty there.

I know like Connect won't work out of the box, but you can get like driver for VR or

something, which then like makes the Connect like pretend to be a Vive puck, so then it

does work.

Or whatever.

I don't know.

Mileage may vary.

Try it out.

Don't go buying hardware on my say.

That's a big thing as well.

If other people in our community, if the team, if we're talking about it, if we're saying

we'll implement a piece of hardware, please don't go spending money on our record.

I would hate for you to hear a rumor from someone like, Neo is just going to support

the PSVR 2 day one, and then you'd go spend money and that not be true.

I would hate for that.

So just like make the choice to buy the hardware and don't count on Neo supporting it fully

until we announce that we do support it fully, is what I'm saying.

Don't spend lots of money without it being confirmed.

Oxy the protogen says, is there any way to get user profiles from the Neo STB stuff?

There is.

But it looks like Lex has answered you there.

Do remember when it comes to our API, I'm limited in the support that I can provide.

Not because I don't want to provide it, but because we have the stance that it's unsupported.

The reason that we have this is because it might change literally any moment.

You might blink, and it might be forward slash cheese forward slash cheddar

forward slash user ID might be the way that you get a user ID or a user profile.

We can't guarantee that it's going to stay the same, and so therefore we don't support

it and we don't document it, because it might change.

If we were to document it, we would establish a sort of handshake between you and our community

saying, this is how it works.

And then if we broke that, you'd be mad at us.

So we don't do that.

Like it's the lesser of two evils.

Let's go, Ted, and take a look and see if we have more questions.

So electronic says, how about we be mad if you break it anyway?

You can totally be mad.

We've told you it's unsupported.

So be mad.

We did warn you.

It's like, do not push this button.

It will kill you.

Someone pushes it and they die.

Why did I die?

Did you read the button?

I actually have that in a folder somewhere.

I know there's people just pushing buttons in my world.

So I made a button that says, like, if you push this, you'll die.

And lots of people push it.

Jack the Duck says, oh, by the way, it is 1738.

So we're going to cut questions off at 1740.

So to keep that in mind, 1740 questions will be cut off.

Jack says, what do you think about flat screen compatible and VR games like Phosphophobia

and VRChat?

Do you think it could attract people from outside of VR to get involved into VR?

Jungish is quite good, Jack.

Don't worry about it.

I do appreciate the apologies, but you're doing quite well.

It is interesting in that regard, but it also comes with problems.

So you need to think about it.

Again, it's a sort of like focus thing.

I don't know what the VRChat team thinks about this, but I have an inkling.

Is it a problem that there are VRChat users who will never use VR?

Is that a problem?

And you can have a stance on that, which is yes, or you can have a stance on that, which

is no.

I have an inkling that their stance is no.

And then from the inkling of no, it then leads to different choices in the development, such

as, well, then that means that we need to always be improving our desktop support such

that it feels like you have all the features of VR without it.

Or if you say yes, then you can be like, well, then we don't care about desktop users.

We should remove all the desktop features.

Good example there being website design.

So when you build a website, you have to make those sorts of decisions about which browsers

you support.

So as a website developer, you have to basically say, do I want to support Internet Explorer?

And if you say yes to this question, please go away.

Internet Explorer is dead.

Stop supporting it.

But if you say yes to it, your developers will groan.

Your developers will be grumbly.

You will add months and months and months to your development life cycle just simply

because you won't take a stance and say dead browsers are unsupported by our website.

But depending on the business, you'll have to make that decision.

If you're running an enterprise business banking application, you probably will need to support

Internet Explorer until 2030.

That's just the way it is.

I know that there are some applications that exist, mostly out east, that still require

Internet Explorer 6 because they use ActiveX stuff.

Is now 17.14.

No more questions.

Diaz says that Babel exists.

I hate Babel.

I've seen so many people that will put Babel.js in their tool chain, and then they'll be like,

and only target the latest Chrome and Firefox.

You know that you can actually just ship next generation JavaScript to Chrome and Firefox

and they'll just be like, cool, bro.

You don't need Babel if you're doing it correctly.

You need Babel if you're dealing with Internet Explorer, but like I said, you shouldn't.

And then once you're not dealing with Internet Explorer, you can remove half your tool chain

because you don't need it anymore.

I've seen some incredibly large web pack files that are just like, why?

You don't need any of that.

If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, I'm sorry, that's just web development.

Web development in 2022 and in 2021 and in 2020 is just a nightmare of tooling, and it's

just ridiculous.

I will answer No User Found's question and then we'll leave off, thank you for the reminder,


I do need to get back to other things.

No User Found says do you think when people who haven't experienced VR or the metaverse

yet see how bad Facebook's metaverse looks and a VR Walmart video, do you think that

harms the reputation of VR?

Yes, it does.

You can think of it, again, like other things that are similar to that, like video games.

You might be influenced by the big content creators who play those video games on their

streams, and then you might make a purchasing decision based on that because you aren't


And so if the VR community isn't putting good content to show this isn't what the metaverse

is like, then people don't know what it's like.

Speaking of that bone jaw thing that was mentioned above, we're having difficulty with surgeons

getting them to even understand that when they're wearing a headset, they have depth,

they have stereoscopic vision.

If you aren't aware of what's going on here, in desktop mode, try and align three cubes

on the same plane.

So try and align them up so that their corners touch in a straight line.

Then do the same thing in VR.

If in VR you are moving around, you're rotating them, you're looking from different angles,

you understand VR.

You understand that there's depth perception, you understand that you're able to influence

your view in the world, and you understand that if you can't quite see if the cubes are

lining up, you can move around there.

Now, of course, you can do the same in desktop, but it's not the same because you have to

do that in desktop, right?

You might align them in one plane, change your perspective in desktop and be like, oh,

they're completely out of alignment.

But in VR, you'll have a much better look if you understand that that depth is there.

We're just seeing people that just don't understand that.

They put on the headset, and for some reason, they don't see the depth is there.

I was actually speaking to Hamish, I said, Jafar, here.

And he said, I'm gonna have to look it up and see if I can actually find the article

about it.

And apparently, they took photographs or like paintings of staircases and sort of three-dimensional

depth-related structures out to uncontacted tribes.

These are tribes that just they have no contact with the rest of the world.

They don't know what the internet is.

They don't really know what like our thoughts of art is.

Of course, they have their own version of art, but they don't know what that is.

And you show them like a picture of some stairs, and they don't see it as stairs.

They don't understand that they would be able to walk up them or the top of the stairs is

different in depth than the bottom of the stairs.

They'll see basically a stack of cubes rather than stairs because they're not able to process

that depth information.

If you've grown up on video games, you'll be able to do that as well simply by, I don't

know, play a first-person shooter, or try and remember back to the first first-person

shooter that you played.

You wouldn't have understood depth as well as you do there.

That isn't even the hardest problem.

Aaron says, how do doctors not understand that?

One of the hardest problems we have with doctors and other people that haven't been in VR is,

oh, no, I won't put on the headset, it'll mess up my hair.

That is the hardest problem we have to solve.

They don't want to mess up their hair.

And with that interesting anecdote, I will leave you there and speak to you again on

the, whatever that date was, on the 20th.

If you have any further questions, feel free to direct message me, drop it in the Discord

or wherever else you might want to speak to people about it.

I will speak to you later.