OfficeHours:ProbablePrime:2022-02-01

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Prime Time, ProbablePrime's Weekly office hours for Questions, Tutorials and Documentation and anything else that doesn't really fit.

Here are the notes from 1st February 2022.

These are rough notes typed by ProbablePrime. If there are errors please edit away!

Summary

Please do remember to check our Roadmaps as a lot of questions here are partially covered there. Do continue to ask them but the roadmaps are there for you to read:

Please use our Contacting the Neos Team section to reach out! Please make GitHub issues for your issues!

For security issues please read our Security Policy. For moderation issues please submit a ticket on our Moderation Portal.

Random Note on Rumors

I'm getting a bunch of Rumors heading my way this week, so I'm taking the opportunity to let you know:

  • If you hear a rumor and want to clarify it or check if its true.... ASK US. You can DM me or ask at any of the contacting the neos team options.
  • Please don't take them as fact without fact checking your information. Missinformation and disinformation is rife and its very easy to confirm information with me. Ask and I will answer.

Common Rumors from this week:

  • You need to pay $ or NCR to play Neos - FALSE, Neos is free.
  • NCR would not be given out in the February Patreon Cycle - FALSE, this was given out. NCR changes will be announced.
  • You will be banned for reporting security issues - FALSE, if you breach the security policy you may be though. So make sure you follow it.
    • Examples of breaching this policy include:
      • Testing security issues in public, without the consent of users present.
      • Showing off security issues, or bragging about them in public.
      • Using these security issues to breach other guidelines including but not limited to asset theft, harrassment etc.
    • Follow the security policy please!.

Questions

Maui: Q: How is getting lip syncing on linux going? I remember looking at a issue awhile back has anything happened with that?

  • I'm not sure, for all progress on that issue check the Github Issue

Fuzzy: Q: Is there any way to get the 'streaming camera' to work in Desktop mode - a second popup window for it maybe?

  • Not currently, I'm also not sure what you're after. It usually only makes sense in VR.
  • Please open a github issue with your request.

Ohzee: Q: Just something I've been curious about for a bit, how does the team decide when a update is "done" and ready to be pushed out? It seems like updates are done in chunks of features/bug fixes but surely there is some sorta cutoff?

  • Its a team choice really.
  • Sometimes releasing an update is done to secure future development or sometimes it is halted while development happens.
  • It usually depends on the complexity of the upcoming changes etc.
  • BEPU's a great example of this. Lots of stuff was sort of stuck behind it being released so we had to focus on getting that out once it was ready.

Earthmark: How can we in the community help y'all prime? What do y'all need from the peeps right now?

  • Strangely, I still need your help in resolving cultural issues.
    • Rumors - Rumors are unhealthy. I've been dispelling a bunch these past weeks. Remember to refer to official sources or to just simply ask me. My DM's are open. As is the option of anoynmous tickets.
    • Guidelines - Read them, follow them.
    • Helping - Make sure you're not being too overbearing, don't stomp on someone elses initiative to help people too.
    • Communication - Talk to people listen to them
    • Conflict Resoloution - There's too much "REEEEEE" if something bad happens practice conflict Resoloution to discuss it.
  • See my social videos for more info.

wonfiddy.eth: I need help with using the Leap Motion Camera as a Handtracking controller

  1. get the last known version that works ( Version 4.0.0)
  2. Install it
  3. look for green led in system tray
  4. Launch Neos
  5. Enable it in Neos' Settings tab
  • If there are issues please open a GH issue or post in bugs and feedback with some logs.

Enverex: Are snap-point-joints still broken on headless servers? Was hoping to use them for Virtual Furnal Equinox but I think they're just another one of those long forgotten issues.

  • Enverex is referring to Join Snap points.
  • The latest update for this one is on the GH Issue

Sloppy McFloppy: Might there be any decent documentation on UpdateOrder and use cases for using it/how to use it if needed? Do negative numbers work because I've seen negative numbers on neos-created components? etc.I've found a whole lot of nothing, it would be cool to see an in-depth tutorial on that.

  • I'm not sure how to help here right now.
  • In some cases, there's a line between "Should Use" and "Can Use" and update order has always felt like one of those things.
  • If there are issues with components where you feel like updating the update order property fixes them please open a GH issue for each specific case and we can discuss it there.
  • In some cases there are bugs which need resolving etc.
  • Sometimes there's just stuff in Neos which should not be required for a user to know and I sometimes feel update order is an example of this. Let's discuss individual problems you've found that need it to be touched as I said.

I also spent some time having a conversation about IK vs Non-IK avatars, my worry here was that Sloppy was finding these update order issues due to their decision to not use our IK systems with their avatars. This approach is common with users from the AnyLand community. The important thing I wanted to ensure here was that users did not feel like they were forced to create these complex systems due to limitations in Neos' IK. Sloppy assured me that they didn't feel forced they just enjoyed experimenting and having the anyland feel by not using our IK. This is totally fine.

From this conversation lots of people spoke about our IK and commented on it like it was broken or that Sloppy was good for not using it. This wasn't the point of my discussion but, do remember that we have several performance enchancements and optimizations on our IK that we plan to do. I hope that we get to the point where this is no longer an issue.

In summary, IK vs Non-IK: USE WHAT YOU WANT!, If a session owners asks you to hop into a non-ik avatar go for it though.

Neither approach is superior, in my eyes.

Wildrogue.eth are you aware if the leap motion works with the oculus quest 2?

  • Without a tether to your computer (Oculus Link, Virual Desktop etc), this will not work.
  • With a tether, I think you'll need to get the USB connection of the leap directly into the computer.
  • Some users, use large USB extension cords to do this.

Fuzzy: I've been using Neos since 2017, before it was on Steam, and it's only in the past 3 months or so that I've felt concerned for the Neos community, since NCR became 'famous' and we got flooded with people who don't even want to fire up Neos and hop in... ...they just want to try to make money. There's been a LOT of wild speculation about NCR, massive trolling and general downright unpleasantness on here these past few months, sadly. Do you know if there's going to be anything happening on that side of things at all? I'd love things to get back to the normal fluffiness...

  • Lets start with some foundational statements:
    • Neos is for everyone
    • Neos aims to not discriminate or ostracize any community
    • Neos aims to encourage diversity and inclusion
  • Baed on those statements, there's nothing wrong with NCR holders who don't want to play Neos. Think about the regular stock market. You might hold stock in Tesla but not really know what they are doing or be using their products. I myself have stock in Tesla but I dont own a Tesla Car. I'm just invested in their success. This is totally fine.
  • With that said, there are some issues of trolling and other guideline violations in the discord around this area. I'd encourage everyone reading this to:
    • Remember to be the better person, Don't insult anyone or judge or treat them differently just based on their views.
    • Be respectful of the community and don't be a jerk.
  • A lot of us come from other groups on the internet that face similar treatment. Are we really presenting the best view of our community if while fostering this community we turn around and behave rudely to another community?
    • Remember Neos is not owned by any one group or identity. We are for everyone.
  • If you see Guideline violations or issues please report them.

Pyronix: Q: Is there any testing tool planned natively and/ or are there any commonly used DIY approaches, or at least ideas?

  • I don't think things like Unit Testing, Integration Testing etc are possible without severe enhancements to Logix. Things like function/compound nodes as a feature could allow those compounded nodes to be tested with open or closed box testing for example.
  • Most testing that occurs right now is Manual testing. You write logix and then you test it practically and in place.
  • Beyond that(and without saying this is an example of this, just commenting generally), I've seen a lot of users who place barriers to learning logix or neos in their way because they can't find parrells between Neos and other systems. Neos is different, Logix is different. Please don't get lost comparing it to other languages or systems. Some practices map or have close approximations but be careful with them.
  • If you have ideas about testing logix, please open a GH issue to discuss.
  • This all of course does not apply to the C# inside Neos' engine that runs Logix. We use testing whenever we can in those matters but Neos is closed source.

Enverex: Are we likely to start seeing updates again any time soon? The mounting GitHub issues, combined with what is essentially all roadmap entries being pushed back further and further is rather demotivating.

  • That's a team decision, I can't speak for the entire team so I don't know.

OfficialXau: Has anyone asked about a component or LogiX node that prevents something from rendering for one user specifically (such as removing parts of the head that get in the way?

  • You most likely need ValueUserOverride or Near Clip for this.
  • Reminder on this one(This was just an opportunity, Xau is in no way a Guidelines violator): If you have uh... hidden "body parts" using ValueUserOverride you are still in breach of our guidelines. If you wish to have "Body Parts" on your avatars, then save a separate copy with those parts and equip it when you are in a private session with consenting adults. Please read our guidelines for more information.