OfficeHours:ProbablePrime:2021-12-14

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Prime Time, ProbablePrime's Weekly office hours for Questions, Tutorials and Documentation and anything else that doesn't really fit.

Here are the notes from 14th December 2021.

These are rough notes typed by ProbablePrime. If there are errors please edit away!

Summary

Please do remember to check our Roadmaps as a lot of questions here are partially covered there. Do continue to ask them but the roadmaps are there for you to read:

Security Policy

Please use our Contacting the Neos Team section to reach out! Please make GitHub issues for your issues!

Questions regarding the current roadmap/status of Neos

alsmith: There seems to be concern in the player base that updates are slowing down. Can you fill@us in on what is happening?

TheBasementNerd (she/her): This is a question that I haven't actually heard an answer to yet, which I understand the reasoning behind delays of answers and such but I'd also like to get some info on this: There has been a lot of discussion on not just the delays in updates, but the delays of lack of responses to updates. What is being done to create a better flow of communication and increase the workflow of Neos development among the entire team, as there has historically been a lot of pressure from the work and community being placed among Froox?

TheBasementNerd The lack of responses is more based in that the community has said they have found a silence in communication, namely in the way of interaction in the github and in the discord. These office hours are extremely good and many users that join here love them, but they are also feeling like the ONLY response. Many places will put responses up in public capacity that are easy to find or at the forefront of where users are, these interactions are stored away in a separated channel that has to be found and very little is easily publicly obvious for the users. I am wondering if that will be improved upon or any work on that sort of public response will be considered, or is it going to stay relegated to these office hours? I apologize if my words are a little sporadic, typing fast cause I also have something else to do in a second.

  • For this question, i'm re-typing up a new answer that's different from my original one at the session.
  • Thank you for your questions in this area, They're a little difficult to answer without causing frustration in some manner. I apologize for that. I'll try to answer as best as I can :).
  • Yes, there has been a slowdown, I acknowledge that. We've got a number of factors at play that are causing this:
    • Vacations - We work... pretty much 24/7. I myself have a full time job and still find time to help out on Neos. Its very tiring on us all so occasionally we have to take a break and who takes that break can have an effect on our output. We're working on resolving these gaps and blips as quickly as we can in line with scaling our team and other matters.
    • Holidays - Stuff, gets weird around the holidays. Some of us are traveling or spending time with friends and family etc. This isn't an excuse for us to be slow for sure. But it is a factor. I myself haven't had a holiday season with my family in 3 years due to where I'm living.
    • Growth - Growth is hard. We're experiencing a lot of that, from the NCR boom to the growth of funding leading to a growth of the company. Its challenging to get our ducks in a row and act. A lot of the team are still volunteers and have other commitments. We're looking to improve that and to maybe hire on as many of them as we can as well as making some additional hires. Getting this done takes time and is particularly hard around this time of year.
  • If this answer doesn't satisfy you then that's totally fine. I understand. Feel free to Direct Message me on discord with your complaints, queries, or concerns. I'm also happy to hear ideas you have to improve things. New Communication ideas? New Things? Ask me whenever.
  • Above all else remember that we're here to work together as a community and to help each other with Neos. Please work with me and the team to do better things and grow.
  • I'm around for the majority of the Christmas period so DM me whatever you'd like.

Questions

Lexevo: Is there any possible way to move facets/interact with UI Edit mode on desktop?

  • Not currently, sorry. You can do this on the legacy dekstop mode though.
  • We'll be working on this and it's on our roadmap.

cyberWarlock: i have a question regarding the main UI for world picking, as it related to your documentation attempts earlier in the project. we all want users, but i feel like the current way the worlds are presented for users leads to people being thrown into advanced sessions where people are working on complex projects.i think it may be better to do some seperation using the default tags so new users can see social sessions/headless sessions first, with them being able to learn about development sessions as an advanced feature to the client. this is so that we can get those less advanced users into the community, and we get less negative reaction for social first users. the question; is this something thats planned lol

  • We certainly want to improve and add features to our world browser to aid in this area and others.
  • In my opinion, this will get fixed with a lot of growth in our community.
  • For now please try selecting the "Social" tab.

Lexevo: Would the team possibly consider an update along the lines of a small visual update to the settings, for example having a slightly different contrast background every second setting to easily align the checkbox for that setting?

  • Unfortunately not sorry, we're working on a full settings panel update which will involve updating everything to a new system.

AyeNash: I have a small question about mobile development, specifically quest development. Just wondering how it’s going so far, I’m currently testing out the quest version and it runs surprisingly well.

  • Quest isn't a focus for us right now but it is on our more longer term roadmap.
  • I've had some success using it on the quest directly.
  • Most quest users use ALVR, Oculus Link, Virtual Desktop etc. to play tethered.

Enverex: Do release update cycles and "slow down periods" still come into play when critical things like core networking are currently broken? See:

   https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/3357 (open 33 days)
   https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/3360 (open 31 days)
   https://github.com/Neos-Metaverse/NeosPublic/issues/3441 (open 7 days)
   Additionally, these tickets have seen absolutely zero interaction from any team members, not even so much of an acknowledgement that they've been seen, never mind investigated or are being resolved. This has caused some real concern over the reliability of Neos in the long run for professional use.
  • Thanks for raising these again. We've issued responses to all of them that we're investigating them.
  • One(The relay) is fixed.
  • We understand that the other issues are sill present and we're working on them. We hope the response to them helps you know that we're looking at them and that they are not ignored by our team.
  • Please continue to politely poke us with issues like this whenever you can.

miniman: Can I buy cheese with my NCR yet?

  • No.

Siki: Speaking of DMs, Is it possible to request the 3D badge and 2D badge without having to DM staff one on one instead of just an application/forum?

  • There are no forms for this. The usual path is to message Shifty on discord. She will help you as soon as she can.

YOHO cuz Prime asked: do you know when the next update is going to be well how about this what is the main thing that is being worked on?

  • You can read the roadmap to see what we're working on. Everything in the "In Progress" or "Implementing" section is what's being worked on.
  • Any updates to this will also be shown on the roadmap, so any time day or night you can look at it and see an up to date view of what's going on.
  • No updates exist without updates to the roadmap. If its being worked on, its on the roadmap!

alsmith: What is status of headless servers and early access like@on Patreon?

  • Good?
  • Its still working quite well, there are some issues and bugs of course. This is why its an early access feature.
  • If you have a specific question

TheBasementNerd (she/her): Can we tell users that are curious for more info to things that community members can't answer that the solution, at the moment, is to DM you about it?

  • Sure, blow up my DMs with whatever you want at the moment.

sls: is the long term, is there anything related to our accounts that we will need to dm staff to do? (create groups, manage groups, change usernames, etc)

  • No, we'd hope to make all of these things part of the core experience as we grow. We don't want to make people the main blocker for a lot of these items.

Enverex: The office hours are also not viable for a lot of people, e.g. it's past midnight on a work night for me so I shouldn't be here. Geenz's is at 2am my time, so again not really viable so they really shouldn't be the way you're expected to approach something. Anyone further East of the UK is unlikely to be able to make most of the meetings unless they don't have to get up the next day.

  • Understandable, however we have other ways of reaching the team. You can find these on the Neos Team page. There are lots of options here.
  • Also feel free to Direct message me whenever you want. I'll do my best.

jeana: what is the expected behaviour wen having a group but no longer subscribed to the patreon tier? will the group be locked or disappear?

  • Thanks for the reminder here, I have the information here but need to update the groups page as soon as I can.
  • From memory, once you stop paying the Groups file storage space will act like user storage does which is that we DO NOT delete anything but no new items can be saved to the group.

sls: how is your more detailed plugin gidelines wiki page going?

  • Well, it needs some more reviews from the team which are slow at this time of year.

Farid: Will you have lands?

  • No, land is infinite in Neos so has no value.

sls: ive heard that pro users can get a local neos cloud server, do you know the details on how that works? i cant find any official info about it. https://wiki.neos.com/Neos_Pro

  • I'm sorry, I don't know please ask hello@neos.com.

Lexevo: Currently, there are quite a few versions that are compatible with each other. Do you think that this is going to be a regular thing from now on? (multiple compatible updates in the future)

  • Yes, that's one of the reasons behind Neosine to allow compatibility to be easier to identify.
  • The reasons compatibility happen aren't sometimes under our control though. Its based on how complex changes are between builds. The most recent builds haven't been that complicated so the compatibilitiy has stayed the same.

Purple Juice: do you know if what Geenz is working on would fix the color in PBS_ColorMaskSpecular as shown in this image? <:O https://i.gyazo.com/2288117d731e6538cf622cf6dbb7f65b.jpg

  • Please ask Geenz this directly, perhaps in their office hours.

Rustybot: Is there currently a plan to have any sort of join request system for a world? Say someone wants to have their world publicly displayed but require a person to be 'let in'. Or would you consider this solved by the current world visibility system.

  • You can currently achieve this by setting a world's "Max Users" to 1 and then setting it to a public access setting such as Registered users etc.
  • This is a little hacky though, so perhaps open a GitHub issue for your needs.

miniman: Do you know if/when we will be getting more information on the 2 new hires Karel mentioned recently? Exciting stuff!

  • I don't know.

cyberWarlock: are there plans to move away from a centralized database for files, and making it more decentralized? wether that's web3, or just letting users host their own file storage

  • Yup, various web3 style solutions are being considered. You can see their GitHub issues on our GitHub. For example look at storage related issues for information about alternative locations for File Storage within Neos.

Rucio: Regarding the compatible Neos versions, there is a known incompatibility that can cause users on older clients to be kicked out of a world due to a component. I've found that the users running the old versions are either not running the Neos Launcher in the standalone, have added Neos.exe to their Steam launcher or are otherwise preventing upgrades. Might be good to mention that if you're not on 2021.11.10.1253 (steam) or 2021.11.10.1265 (standalone), you may want to upgrade 🙂

  • Yes, if there are too many changes between builds its possible that you'll be kicked from a world when a problem occurs.
  • Just make sure that you're on the latest build as best as you can.