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Prime Time, ProbablePrime's Weekly office hours for Questions, Tutorials and Documentation and anything else that doesn't really fit.

Here are the notes from 5th October 2021

These are rough notes typed by ProbablePrime. If there are errors please edit away!


Please do remember to check our Roadmaps as a lot of questions here are partially covered there. Do continue to ask them but the roadmaps are there for you to read:

Remember to look at our Security Policy. If you report security issues/ exploits following it then we may give you MONEY, if you do not and use the found issues maliciously or against our guidelines then you may face moderation action.

Do also check out the latest Neos Recap stream for an interview with Frooxius about the differences between Hard Permissions and Object ID / Licenses. Here is a summary though:

  • If you want to protect your world from modification, for example scaling or weird Logix => You want Hard Permissions.
  • If you want to protect your assets(worlds, avatars, items) from theft => You want Object ID / Licenses.


kazu: Q Regarding the MTC Art Room, there is no new place to jump to from the new MTC Hub, but I visited it the other day and it seemed to have some useful information. For the MTC Art Room, are there any plans to recreate the world and reconnect it? (Sorry if this is on the roadmap somewhere).

  • The MTC is always growing and evolving.
  • Now the content team are wrapping up The Universe Experience they'll be looking into what is next.

AshtonSparx: What's Neos's stance with the rapid plugin usage? Especially using them with non-plugin users

  • For now take a look at the EULA and Guidelines. More official guidance is coming.
  • Once this guidance is available, All past guidance will be recinded.
  • In 5 years please don't quote answers you see here or provided to you by other team members.

GunGryphon: What is the most common question you get asked that could be prevented?

  • Most common questions can be solved by reading every item of content the team produces.
  • I understand that this is a large and difficult ask.
  • Try to read/follow(If you can):
    • Our Weekly updates
    • Our Patch notes
    • Our office hour notes
    • Our Roadmaps
  • This will then lead to some questions being resolved. I understand avoidable questions and while I may sound irritatited when answering them. The irritation is often at our lack of explaining these concepts to you all in ways which are easier to consume.

Spex: Q: During the very tail-end of MMC, an update was pushed to Neos that made changes to the CDN (if I understand what happened correctly). While the disruption wasn't huge, it did cause some disruption and forced some users to have to roll back a version to continue using Neos. While I wouldn't expect Neos to tailor its update schedule to every potential event, this seems like it would've been best if it had waited until just after a major event like MMC which was so close to wrap-up. Would the dev team consider occasionally holding back updates unless critical in such cases for the future?

  • This was really unfourtunate and we're sorry.
  • We did test this update with our Quality Control team for a few days before pushing it and everything looked good.
  • The perils of DNS systems are their updates are not something that we will take lightly in the future.
  • I think some of the issues might be to do with Geographic coverage within our internal teams not representing a good enough segmentation of the Internet.
  • There are tools to validate global DNS updates which may help in the future.

Reava_: Q: are shader creators open to submit / request implementation for some cases ? thinking mostly about Mochie's standard shader variant has shadowed reflections with AO and is very widely used on other platforms

  • As this is a graphical question. Please take it to the Graphics Office hours instead.
  • However, for my answer. We're not accepting any additional community contributed shaders right now. Implementing these often leads to a large overhead that may make parts of our systems fragile and soon to break.
  • When talking about shaders please try to focus on the specific features you're looking for as these are possible to implement. See: for discussion on the FEATURES within our toon shaders for example.
  • There were some general comments about AO again, visit the Graphics office hours. But generically you do not want to turn off AO. You want SOME level of AO. Maybe not as agressive as our current AO settings but you do need some. Stuff looks weird without it in most cases.

Enverex: Q: Going on from these being graphics related questions - Are Geenz' Office Hours going to stabilize? He's missed quite a lot of them and rather than being pushed back a day or so, it's normally skipped enirely and pushed back several weeks, which is a long time. I think during the whole existence of the Office Hours system he's only done... 2? (maybe 3?).

  • I'm working on this with the team as the schedule is a little weird right now I agree.

GunGryphon: What good habit building practices would you recommend everyone use when creating new things in Neos?

  • Avoid non-uniform scale where you can, it creates a mess.
  • Name your slots. No one likes seeing weirdly named slots. For a gun for example. Your barrell should be named Barrell and not "Box Parent-Child-Parent-Pivot"
  • Name your Logix Packing Slots something other than "Logix" for example "Shooting Logix" this makes it easier to find later and reduces anxiety when unpacking and packing.
  • Constantly be thinking, How could I make this easier? Is this hard? Should this be hard?
    • Often times you'll find someone has come up with an idea of how to do it better
    • In some cases this is Neos itself. We have most mathematical functions available for you. I have seen some custom implementations of Atan2, Look Rotation etc. We have nodes for those!
    • Ask if you're unsure.
  • Remember to add Object Roots onto the root of your objects in Transform

Duff: I’m probably not considered new at this point but I still think I am but what does the neos community look like around the holiday season in terms of events or traffic? I’m just a little curious after having just go through mmc

  • Holidays are weird and may have peaks and dips just to how they work.
  • Some new users do end up in Neos after receiving headsets but these users usually end up on more mainstream games like Beatsaber and HL:Alyx.
  • Some fun events occur such as Secret Santa's and Christmas Parties. Look out for these. They are fun!

kazu: Q: Can I request to add subtitles for ProbablePrime's past explanations? (It's very useful, but Japanese people can't understand it unless it's in Japanese.

  • This is difficult, unfourtunately youtube removed a feature recently that allowed community members to do this in whatever language they would like to so I need to find users who can help me subtitle in other languages. Of course firstly I need to do it for my own content in English and this is very time consuming.
  • I've considered seeking paid services to do this for me but am still researching it.

Duff: Is there a badge/warning for people who specifically have some form of ptsd or a distaste for firearms in particular (or something along those lines)? Usually people tell me prior or right then in there but I’d like to be aware before making a mistake spawning out content that might trigger/offend/or scare others

  • Badges wouldn't be the right fix here as there is too much content that is far too varied to cover it with badges.
  • We have a feature here called Content Tagging that should help here.
  • Its highly tied to the marketplace as tags for items would also be used for searching. For example and lining up with your case. An item tagged "gun" might cause it to be blocked in a session but it also might be something that you would like to search for.
  • We were having some early discussions about this in the realm of adult content tagging but we really do need to wait for the proper discussion for more generalized tagging.
  • once this occurs you'll be able to potentially filter objects with certain tags and block them from appearing in your sessions.

Earthmark: I have seen tooltips on ui elements requested repeatedly, really this feels like one of the most common new user requests on either neos provided ui or custom tool ui. When tooltips get brought up in GitHub they get consistently deferred and put under the label to the effect of "we will go with what is useful", but it's pretty reliable that users would find tooltips useful main ui or custom user ui. Is there any way to try to request a generalized tooltip system and not have it classified as ui rework?

  • For us to work on a Tooltip system it needs to be designed and implemented which is pretty tied to the UI Re-work. Until we look at the UI re-work we're not really sure if we'll even need tooltips at such a frequency as we currently do. Its not that we dont want or don't need them. And it is not that we're not thinking about them or avoiding them. Its just about planning out what is needed and working on it when we can.
  • Think about a car, we need to plan the chassis and the windscreen before we can discuss the interior.

epicEaston197: will we be able to make free items in the marketplace?

  • yes.

Alex rainbowdashie: Will every item get content id?

  • No.

Spex: Q: Following up on a question from a previous Office Hours, have you had any opportunities to follow up on Neos' loging format? Not expecting there's been much yet but just curious if there's anything to share.

  • I do still want to look at the logging framework we use at some point to make it better. It is low priority right now though.