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Prime Time, ProbablePrime's Weekly office hours for Questions, Tutorials and Documentation and anything else that doesn't really fit.

Here are the notes from 7th September 2021.

These are rough notes typed by ProbablePrime. If there are errors please edit away!


Please do remember to check our Roadmaps as a lot of questions here are partially covered there. Do continue to ask them but the roadmaps are there for you to read:


Spex:Q: Very curious about the new Parent slot data sharing feature mentioned in the last change notes. Will there be a coming tutorial? I'm really curious where this can replace use-cases for Dyn Vars and if there are performance. differences there.

  • I recorded a tutorial last night but lost it due to technical reasons. I'll be re-recording soon.
  • For now check out the Examples folder in Neos Essentials
  • On performance/suitability, Parent Data Links are performantly better but can only share data to the direct parent of an object. Nested data is not supported.

Raemien:Q: Are there any plans to improve the wiki's documentation on asset creation (maps, etc.)?

runtime: Regarding the new security policy, how are rewards distributed in cases where multiple people contribute to the report? CDFT aren't transferable, so this isn't something players can resolve on their own.

  • Just put this in the ticket as a part of the report.
  • I'll update the security policy

BaxterQ: I have noticed an odd behaviour with Virtual Parent. If you place a reference to a different float three value in the drive position field, it shows that field as driven, but actually updates the position field of the slot that the float three is on. Is this a bug or intended behaviour?

  • This sounds like a possible bug but I'm not sure. Please open an issue with a reproduction item and we'll take a look.

BaxterQ: Are there any logix nodes or components you really wanna see added that are in the works?

Medra:What are the biggest challenges you see for spreading knowledge throughout Neos?

  • Encouraging people to share their knowledge and then getting them to update the wiki etc or share it.
  • If you learn something share it. Knowledge is a shared responsibility.

FuzzyFoxe: Oh, how about fun use cases for the "OwO" logix node?

  • That's just a joke node. it is safe to ignore.

Baxter:Q: How does the reference cast component work?

  • It casts references between two data types. I haven't found a good use case for it at the moment so Its a little hard for me to explain.

Lucaedr: With regards to documentation, is there at any point going to be a KB-style forum in addition to the ❓questions-help, or so that we can get a more searchable index of questions and probable (with confirmation) solutions?

  • We may end up with something similar to say Stack Overflow but I don't plan for anything like a Support Desk/KB at this time. Moderation might be thinking about it though.

Kyp: Is there any plans to implement in game documentation for Logix at any time? It'd be interesting to have blurbs in the node selector saying what nodes do, etc etc.

Shadow Panther: What are the current short-term plans for the development? What you and Froox are working on and plan to work on?

Turk: How have your documentation efforts been so far? Have you hit any weird issues, or have you been noting stuff down as requests come in?

  • Good, but there's a lot to document. Focusing on one area is difficult.

Spex: I noticed the new tube wire mesh and it reminded me of the very out-dated Bézier curve tool that's buried in components. Any idea if that tool may get fixed up any time soon?

  • It is most likely, that we'll update the underlying mesh for that tool to be more editable. The tool might be removed but users could make their own tools.
  • Check Vigilabo's folder for gadgets that can edit the other types of curve mesh (Vigilabo Public neosrec:///U-Vigilabo/R-074c3ae6-b8b2-4e89-9b48-d29ebf7d7101).

Sloppy McFloppy:Q: Random question, I've heard the term "ref hacking" tossed around a bit, what does that mean?

  • So firstly the difference between a Reference and a value: when we can only have one copy of an entity such as a User, Slot etc and we need to "Refer" to it elsewhere we use a "reference" which is an arrow or path that leads to the original unique location of that entity.
  • Ref hacking is about guessing the path(in this case a numeric ID assigned to each reference) and then editing the values of that reference once the path is followed.
  • It is listed on our Things to Avoid page.

Earthmark: I am finding that I'm relying on behaviors I believe are brittle, are there ways for me to get clarification on if that behavior can be relied upon? For instance one object I've made recently relies on LogiX visuals spawning out one update cycle after an unpack

  • Please open documentation github issues for things like this
  • In some cases these are bugs and can be improved such as the dynamic variable space instantiation.

Turk:How has been learning the code base been? I know folks have been diving into plugins lately, would there be an sort of best practices or like design flow styles that can get better examples for plugins?

  • Its challenging but rewarding.
  • We're still working on internal best practices, documentation and handling before we can focus on External stuff here
  • A plugin tutorial series is planned for my channel.

Baxter:Are dynamic impulses syncronous or asyncronous?

  • Looks like Syncronous, hence keeping the list short as possible.

hack13: Is there any reason why trying to fetch a user’s userid is restricted only to users in the world?

  • Users who are not in a session, don't exist in that session so we can't get you any data about them
  • You can try using the Cloud API to look at this information.

Spex: Dynamic Impulses w/ input or output are limited to a single value of a single type. Is there any chance or plans for multiple values (or even multiple values of different types)? Stop me if the answer is "We need collections" :slight_smile:

  • We need Collections ;)

Baxter: On the note of collections, what sorts are planned?

  • Pretty much everything, Lists, Objects, Arrays, KV stuff
  • Everywhere you see "arrays are not supported" should be handled
  • we dont have a precise list of nodes or components etc yet though.

hack13 Thank you @Shadow Panther [RU/EN, UTC+3] , but is there actual plans to release properly documented API Docs? The wiki just links to a very limited external site that only shows a hand full of calls.

  • No sorry, this isn't officially supported at this time and documenting it presents a risk of users relying on it. This API may break at any time.

Spex A couple of weeks ago there was discussion about full body tracking bugs and the need for community data. Are there any other bugs that are particularly plaguing development and really need more data? (Maybe NCR for bug-hunting as incentive? :wink: )

Earthmark: Can we get an automated swagger doc for neos services? I get that it won't be a stable api, but having an automated way to get the new api into code would help turnaround times for the broken services rather than guess and check.

  • No sorry, this isn't officially supported at this time and documenting it presents a risk of users relying on it. This API may break at any time.

hack13: Ok, last API question from me. Is there any rules on not abusing/rate limit rules? With the understanding it might break at any time.

  • Don't abuse limits.
  • If a limit doesn't exist on an endpoint, it might get one added.
  • We can see graphs and charts of potential problems and may add additional limits or restrictions.

Hack13:So should I identify myself with custom header?

  • Sure, this will help us to identify you.
  • User-Agent is best. Thanks!

Baxter:Q:With looking up types for components that take them, is there a reason for the `1[x] instead of angle brackets generics usually use?

SpexQ: Does Neos use a particular logging format or library? I'm interested in parsing logs for some home-grown headless monitoring tools.

  • No we use a custom one right now, I want to change this to something more standard though.