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These are notes from Geenz' bi-weekly office hours for graphics held on August 5th, 2021, as typed by Shifty. If there are errors, or inconsistencies, please correct them!


Please do remember to check our Roadmaps as a lot of questions here are partially covered there. Do continue to ask them but the roadmaps are there for you to read:


  • There is an alpha build that will be released soon for color management
  • It will be released in phases starting with content builders that have a high volume of content that is likely to be affected by/break from this release initially
  • Note: Do not save anything of any importance on this build. Use 'save as' NOT 'save changes'


Beaned: Can you explain what this message in devlog is about? I'm not really sure what I'm looking at.

AO Fix Preview.png

  • The particular message is a screenshot of one of our more brightly lit worlds where ambient occlusion can be overbearing in the lit sections
  • This has been a request by people to ensure that AO only occurs in ambient lighting scenarios
  • With the previous setting setup for AO, it was done in a way where it was multiplied against everything in the scene
  • The screenshot demonstrates a fix for this, AO occurs in ambient lighting instead of final pass
  • Produces more natural lighting, and will be shipping with color management along with other lighting improvements

Kulza: I think a libVLC update was mentioned a while ago? Is that still planned?

  • It is still planned, we're updating to a new version of libVLC that has some dependency on color management
  • Geenz is working on it in parallel, most of the functional components are in, but it's just a matter of getting the big body of work out there

Beaned:' If there is a mirror reflecting a mirror it does this weird thing where it sorta doesn't know what to do. Can we maybe fix this in some way?

Beaned: Did you get the chance to look into Blender basic shader importing?

  • Not yet, custom shaders are a long-term goal, and possibly will be looked at towards the end of the year
  • No immediate plans/definitive timeline/other things need priority first
  • Geenz would like to look on it, but there is plenty to be done first, including designing the systems required for how to handle custom shaders
  • "It might be possible since it's open source right?"
  • Geenz noted that it's not as much using the applications/libraries associated with it, but figuring out how to apply and translate the concept other applications support to ours and adapt their designs to ours
  • It's possible, but more a matter of 'What is the amount of effort required to get us there?'

Kulza: Does the color management test build include the other fixes like the AO thing or only the color management?

  • It includes everything
  • Color management is being fleshed out as a total package
  • Geenz is in the process of permeating the new managed color through the rest of the engine including Logix
  • More per-pixel light sources for forward-rendered objects
  • AO changes
  • Bloom changes as a necessity due to the nature of color management/linear lighting/things looking more bloomy

Shadow Panther: Color management build for public #📋testing later?

  • Yes, there will be a build released on Steam eventually
  • You will likely find bugs, and content that doesn't work properly
  • Will start with an initial/smaller test pool until Geenz feels comfortable distributing it to everyone fully publicly

Turk: Are color management and the physics update going to come at the same time? Or is it going to be two features at the same time/separate time with regards to testing?

  • Ideally two separate releases, Geenz noted they don't think it's a good idea to release so much simultaneously, and we will be coordinating internally to sort it out (stay tuned!)

Turk:' What kind of things would we expect with the color management changes besides being able to switch between the different color modes?

  • Beyond some of the ancillary things like the AO tweak, increased number of per-pixel light sources for forward-rendered objects, etc. not much
  • Mostly focused around color management
  • Geenz isn't looking to really touch things outside of color management
  • No new shaders, only tweaks to existing one for legacy content compatibility
  • Shader tweaks: Maintain the current look/feel of objects in the world
  • Some tweaks will have additional fields that can be edited e.g. gamma for fog volume
  • Not to the same extent as color management
  • Some variation in appearance is to be expected from the current builds

Kulza: When are the early test builds going to be released? To specific people first I assume?

  • It's been released to people we have certainty to have content that will break
  • The first person to receive the build was today, and it will make its way out to more from there

Toxic_Cookie | NTC CEO: So there's no way to opt in and test it out?

  • There will be a way, as mentioned prior it will be phased in depending on the pace of the initial pass leading up to a full public testing release
  • It has a high possibility of breaking existing content

Beaned: When will Vulkan be used as the primary graphics API for Neos?

  • Vulkan will be coming with the new rendering engine because Vulkan is better- at least for our purposes (multi-platform support including Windows, Linux, mobile)